TnT: Varied Characterization

[pipisafoat]

Congratulations again to pippin for winning the 4th contest!

Your topic for the first Challenge Contest, Tear Down The Wall, will be open until 5 pm GMT Saturday - stretch yourself into something new in 500 words or less!

Don't forget about your assignments, editors, which can be found at this link along with a question for the community as a whole.

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One of the greatest challenges for an author is to write believable characters who are from a variety of backgrounds and not just a cookie cutter of themselves, or of the self you wish you were. Depending on the story, this can mean characters of a different time period, geographic location, culture, socioeconomic background, race, gender, or even height and weight - you wouldn't believe the number of people who fail to take into account that a 4'9" character simply can't reach the spices over the stove without a stool or someone else's help.

Think about all the character-fails you've seen. Don't share them except in the most general of terms, and don't link them to any specific author, but rather think about what knowledge you have that the author didn't that made you recognize them as fails. Share that knowledge here to help other authors do it right next time! If there's a type of character you've not seen enough of in other people's works in general, let us know about their characteristics and how to present them believably and without offense.

As always, please remember to keep a respectful tone here, to authors who have been misinformed as well as other community members sharing their insights with you.

Comments

[azuire]

One of the first mainstream fantasy books I read had a character that was clearly a self-insert. He managed to master several different techniques -- including ambidextrous sword fighting, and wielded a hilariously large blade until its size was ret-conned in a later book. Following that, he developed very patronising attitudes towards certain practices, and then proceeded to be highly hypocritical. Although I recognise that these traits by themselves can contribute to a well-written character, I didn't relate to this chap and his ~destiny at all. It was quite painful to read, because the other characters also had the same lack of depth to them. I think he'd have been much improved if he hadn't been the apple of the author's eye, and he hadn't Hand Waved all the protagonist's flaws.

[mercredigirl]

Fuck. I know who you're talking about. The vegetarian atheist fellow, innit? Avec the lovely ableism and rapeyness. *waily waily*

(Nothin' against vegetarians or atheists. A lot against the bloke in question.)

(Oh, right, he was also the Manly Slaughterer with the 'pacifist' beliefs.)

[mercredigirl]

Thank goodness the first fantasy books I read included The Hobbit, which is charming whimsy.

[senmut]

I have a little-read series I enjoy immensely that did an admirable job mixing up sizes and shapes, and even remembering color in certain books where the geography matched up to 'it would be insane not to have color' here. The authors (three total) do a great job of remembering to point up the differences of their height and ability often.

[thblackflame]

There are two things that I find that typically get in the way of the story for me. One is the ever-dreaded, ever-feared Mary-Sue. I have found over the years I have written is that most people do not actually know the definition of a Mary-Sue is. I was one of these people in fact for many years. In case anyone is wondering the easiest definition in a character who is the the youngest/oldest/best/worst/first/last anything. They also can typically do any and everything, or they can do anything right at all and yet everyone loves them. I have written many many Mary-Sues in my years of writing. There is an excellent site that is the "Ultimate Mary-Sue Quiz" if anyone is interested.

Note: The other thing that bothers me is not necessarily SFW and so will be posted on my personal journal and I will link in comment.

[thblackflame]

http://thblackflame.dreamwidth.org/564.html?#cutid1

This got a lot longer than I thought it was going to be, so fair warning. Also, very explicit and not safe for work.

[msmcknittington]

You know, I'm so afraid of people applying the Mary-Sue label to my own work, that I usually end up going way overboard in the other direction and write a character that is so very different from me that I can't really identify with her at all, and so I abandon the work.

I'd really like to write about short, curvy women, but the fact that I AM a short, curvy woman makes me worry that people would dismiss it as a self-insert. Possibly I just need to get a little bit more backbone, but . . . these thoughts. They bother me.

[thblackflame]

Well, first thing you want to look at is how many people who read what you write know what you look like? We wouldn't have known you were short and curvy if you did mention it. Second, body type does not a Mary-Sue make. It's the personality that creates a Mary-Sue. Take my character Kylynn for example. Kylynn by definition of the universe she comes from is a Mary-Sue. There is no possible way to not create a Mary-Sue in that particular universe. Kylynn comes from a fic-verse that my sisters and I created in which we Authors go into fics and save cannon characters from badfic. She cannot be anything other than a Mary-Sue, so it works for the universe.

But, that means that she is me. She is an expert fighter. She has black voids in her sleeves so that she can bring whatever modern convience she wants into a non-modern world. She can speak several languages. She always gets to hop into bed with the cannon characters. Everyone loves her even though she has an abrasive, obnoxious personality. She turned evil at one point but was brought back to the side of good by her soulmate, a soulmate by the way that she can't stand to be in the same room with for longer than a few minutes and he feels the same about her. She always manages to save the day by herself. And to top it all off, because she's an author, anything she can't already do with her wide range of talents, she can write into existance. Oh, and she could do all of this by the age of seventeen.

That is what you want to worry about when avoid creating a Mary-Sue. lol. Now, the only reason all of that works is because by the very rules of the universe we created for these Author characters, there is just no way to avoid creating a Mary-Sue Kylynn also happens to be the comic relief in the stories, so eyah. Also, Ky is now twenty-five and has far more faults and limitations in her most recent incarnation than she did when I initially created her at seventeen.

Now, ways that I avoid creating Mary-Sue's now is two things. A set of gaming dice and http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm I use the dice to randomly choose the basics of a characters looks, talents, personality, etc. and then I check it on that quiz.

[ex_pippin880]

Some people are overly fond of shrieking "Sue! Sue!" because of the inherent misogyny in fiction and fandom. If worrying less about it would make you happier with what you write, then try not to worry. :)

[silverflight8]

Self-inserts aren't evil, though. It's only when I can actually feel the writer behind the story--as though the character narrating doesn't feel like the character, just the writer--that it gets annoying.

[ex_pippin880]

Most people write Sues at some point in their life, and then do not write Sues for most points in their life.

I don't understand why people freak out and harp on about them so much. Is there some additional Sue menace I don't know of due to my original fiction privilege?

[ex_pippin880]

OT: is the 'th' in your name a theta or an eth? Or is it just an aspirated [t]? I can't work out how to pronounce it. x__x

[silverflight8]

...the definition of Mary Sue is kind of fluid; there's not a consensus.

And not to pick a fight, but those Sue quizzes? Suppose you're writing in a world where everyone has a magic power or gift. Wouldn't a character with a power then be ordinary? Or if everyone did have blue hair? It all depends on the context.

Self-inserts, though, are often very irritating. Especially when it's painfully obvious.

[msmcknittington]

I think my biggest flag for mischaracterization, especially in fantasy novels, is a character who comes from a rural background and yet still seems to think like a person who grew up in an urban environment. I grew up on a farm and still live there, and I'm always sort of uncomfortable with the role that a rural background plays in literature. It seems like most of the characters there are usually portrayed as yokels, which certainly doesn't match my experience. People in rural areas aren't any stupider than people anywhere else.

It's kind of hard to describe how a person from a farming background thinks. I think part of it might be that a lot of characters don't seem to think about animals or take for granted that there will always be food there, semi-magically, and seem to be unaware of all the work that goes into producing it. I know that a lot of people consider food to be "boring" writing, but food is a major part of cultures and the lack thereof has prompted more than a few wars and rebellions.

I think another element of my discomfort is that so many stories have people escaping rural settings to urban ones (unless we're talking like English Renaissance drama), and that sets up this weird almost ideology where people who live in rural areas are backwards yokels and they go to cities to find enlightenment. Which I find pretty problematic, honestly.

I do feel strange being uncomfortable with the portrayal of rural people, because it's a non-issue for most of the US, and I don't think I've ever encountered anyone else who felt the same way.

The "surprise feminism" (or whatever social issue you want to insert there) that many characters in historical fiction show is disconcerting, too.

I think the only way to avoid either of those things is RESEARCH. Holy lots of research. Not just "factual" research (how do you make a sword?) but anthropological/sociological research (how was the sword regarded in this culture at this time?). The answer is probably going to be slightly more nuanced than IT WAS TOTALLY AWESOME!!! at least 99-percent of the time.

Specifically on the representation of rural areas in fiction, I think it might help to write fewer "farmboy becomes prince" stories, and maybe write more "farmgirl saves the day with hoe" or "wizard-farmer prevents war by growing super big sweet potato that feeds the nation" stories. OK, maybe not the last one. But there are a lot of aspects of culture that are neglected in fiction that are pretty rich with conflict and which don't require Idiot Villager #1 and Hayseed Yokel #4 to make happen.

[thblackflame]

lol. Well, I agree with you on the research. That's one of my biggest hang ups as well since I come from the anime fandom and for a long time I only ever wrote Japanese characters. I was a little obsessed. *holds hands hands far apart to express how little the obsession was* Anyways, I also agree that people don't think about how a rural character would think and react. I will fully admit I am one of them. Until I read your comment it never even occurred to me. I'm a city girl and I count the number of times I'm been on a farm much less did anything on one on half a hand. Luckily, I generally only write what I know. ^_^;;; But, I think you bring up a very good point and one that I will certainly be thinking on the next time I write something. Thank you. ^_^

[mercredigirl]

I like the sweet potato storyline.

[azuire]

Yes. This is a pet peeve of mine, that the character automatically thinks like a 21st century average white person, instead of a person in that fictional universe. And again, although I wouldn't mind a storyline where rural person goes to city -- I would like to see the baggage all that entails being focused on, because too often the experience is trivialised.

[ex_pippin880]

I'd love to read about more asexuals and aromantics, but it is difficult to do. :/ If you don't specify anything, then people will just read them as chaste/shy/doing everything off screen, because in people's heads 'not with someone' defaults to 'not with someone at this point in time/yet. But to have to try and bring up 'they're not showing interest in anyone because they're ace' goes against the show-don't-tell notions people ram down your throat. :/

[thblackflame]

That's an interesting though. I'll admit I'm one of those people who have the preconcieved notion that the main character will at some point end up in a relationship with a love interest, but I read and write smut. I do think it would be interesting to read something with an asexual character. What do you mean by show-don't-tell notions? It's not a phrase that I have heard before, so I'm curious. ^_^

[azuire]

this is interesting. in these circles, there's characters who are subtly coded as such, and other asexuals recognise and write about them.

I sometimes have characters that are trans, and I code/mention those by discrepancies observed in their narration (I'm a very first-person narrator person) and the reaction of people around them. That's how I "show". I suppose for an ace it would be more subtle, and a lot more complex. Wonder how we could do it without outright telling...

[silverflight8]

At this point I think I'd settle for the protagonists not getting together. It feels like there's a rule that state that if there are female and male leads, then they must be in some kind of romantic relationship at one point or another. :(

Sometimes tell works: I think it's a balance between show/tell. Too much of either, and it doesn't work. (I mean, imagine how big a book'd get!)

[ex_pippin880]

Is it just my browser being odd or is the font-size for the comments amazingly tiny?

[msmcknittington]

It's pretty little to start with. Probably 8 or 10 pt? Sans serif fonts take up less room on the screen, too.

Most browsers will let you increase the font size on the screen if you go to View. Somewhere under there it will say something like "zoom" or "increase font size".

[silverflight8]

They're tiny, and also everything is grey-on-white. :(

[so_wordy]

When I first started writing, my Mary Sueness was everywhere. It's funny in retrospect, though.

The most recent "popular" literature I've seen with Mary Sue Syndrome has had hit books and movies. I've read the books (they were my guilty pleasure), but the style and characterization had me cringing. It felt like a rabid fangirl rambling on and on about her most perfect and sparkly love interest. Also, the female protagonist was instantly adored by all (even though she saw nothing attractive about herself.) She worships her beau to the point of disastrous delusion and [in the end] saves the day with a mysterious power.

I feel like the author will one day realize her mistakes (there were some good ideas, I just think they were poorly executed) and retcon the entire series. Eventually it will be rewritten and said author will make tons more munnies.

*head desk*